Understanding the Wisdom of Strength (Gene Key 34) with Shannon Plummer!

In this week's episode, Shannon Plummer joins us to discuss the wisdom of the Gene Keys, in particular Gene Key 34.  I am grateful to Shannon for sharing time with our community to discuss the common mental trapping of trying and forcing that takes us out of our power - a power that we come to know through self-assurance, trust, and faith. 

Show Notes:

Shannon Plummer has been a student of healing for 25 years as a Licensed Acupuncturist, functional health practitioner, and transformation guide. Her study and love of The Gene Keys was a natural progression into the unique and subtle energies that are often overlooked in a whole-person approach to healing and self-discovery. She is committed to assisting women to trust themselves, unravel old patterns, develop awareness, and create transformation in their bodies and minds to live authentically and truly who they are.

Through her life experience and work with clients, she understands how it is to feel lost and unsure of one’s self in the pilgrimage of life. She has gained valuable insight over these 25 years which allows her to relate fully to those on a similar path.

Shannon offers Gene Key sessions. To inquire about her services, send her an email at shannon@shannoncplummer.com.

Follow Shannon on Facebook to read her inspiring writing at
Follow her on Medium "Stories by Shannon"

Go to the Gene Keyes website to learn more about this system that inspires self-awareness and insight. 

We are now on YouTube!

Connect with us: Instagram and Facebook

Learn more about Kristen O'Meara here

Sign up for Kristen's newsletter, Spiritual Caregiving. The first edition is out in September! She has wonderful offerings for caregivers of children/teens/adults with special needs/disabilities.

The intro song “To Meet the Light” and outro song “Where the Light Is” by lemonmusicstudio

Transcript

0:44

Hello everyone. And welcome to intuition talks. I am Kristen O'Meara and I am here with the lovely Shannon plumber. How are you, Shannon? Oh, I'm good. I'm I'm really, I'm good today. You, I just, you know, when I, I look at you and I talk with you, I just feel the image I get is sunshine. It's just, you're such a, such a warm and lovely person. And I just want to acknowledge that and, and let you know, that's so sweet of you to say it's really true. That's the image and the feeling I get. And I just want to, to tell you how grateful I am that you're here having a conversation with me today. And, and I want to let folks know that we are going to be touching on the gene keys And it's become a new favorite subject of mine. I was introduced to the Genki's, um, through a friend, Caleb Nieper, who's a yoga instructor. About, I think it was about 2018 and he was really into it and he would talk about it. And I was like, Oh, this is so fascinating. And I loved hearing about it, but I was into other things. I was doing shamanic journeying and learning about mediumship and, but I had it in the back of my And I, uh, picked it up again. Really? It was like, I would say about a week before you were on intuition talks last with Tina. Yeah. It was just a week or so before. And then, you know, we're talking with you about grace and graciousness and the gene keys came up and it was just, it was really, um, a nice synchronicity to, to have in a reminder for me that, yeah, I think I'm ready to, to look into the system and see. See what it offers. And for folks who don't know about the gene keys, the system was developed by Richard Rudd and Shannon, you know, a lot more about the gene keys than I do. But just a brief, a brief overview. So Richard Rudd, from my understanding, taught human design for a long time. And from what I've read on his website, gene keys. com, he, he was a senior teacher and brought the gene or human design to the UK. So I think he popped up, popularized it and, he taught that for a while. And then my understanding is that he just synthesized it in his own way. Well, how would you describe it? Yeah, he, um, he did, he was, he studied with Ra Roo, uh, in human design and, um, what he did when he created the gene keys, he combined human design with the I Ching and, um, his understanding of the I Ching deepened. And he realized that there were, there were levels of consciousness, um, because the gene keys really, they're, they're an approach to, to guide us on our own unique path and to begin to understand, like today, we'll probably talk about the shadow, the gift and the city, which is, um, In Sanskrit, it means divine gift, and so those are the, there's the different levels of consciousness of, of these different jinkies. So they are based on the time and place of your birth, as is human design, combined with, uh, the I Ching, which I just think it's just, it's just beautiful. And it, uh, it came into my life at just a perfect time, and I just never put it down. Yeah. It was just, I mean, you could, you could study the gene keys forever, I feel like, and continue to have a deeper understanding of yourself or helping other people to have a deeper understanding of themselves. So it's been very powerful. In my life. Yeah. I just, uh, it's hard to put into words because I I'm, I'm so new to it, but I love the idea of shadow work. And I know that's just an aspect. I mean, it seems like a big part of, of the work that he's offering, but the way I was introduced to shadow work was just through the work of Carl Young, studying counseling psychology in graduate school and noticing my reactions to other people to understand. And have better insight about, okay, what's going on for me. What I love about the gene keys is that. It, it brings all of that into your awareness in such a deep way because he refers over and over that it's a part of our DNA. It's a part of our, of our makeup, the shadow part, the levels of consciousness, like you said, within the shadow is the gift. And that's very, um, similar to like what Carl Young says that the shadow isn't something that, um, It's an unconscious part of ourselves. It's a part that we're trying to cut off because we don't, you know, we had to for whatever reason, you know, we're living in a, say a family environment as a child and we're not being accepted for who and what we are or particular aspect of who we are. So we just kind of suppress it or repress it and put it aside. And it just erupts because we can't. We can't pull these things out of ourselves of the parts of who we are. It's just innate. So we repress, it comes out in, you know, different ways that perhaps aren't appropriate, aren't helpful to others or ourselves. But what I love about the gene keys is that it offers the gift in like the divine gift. those, those higher levels of consciousness. So it gives us a, a way to understand that, Oh, this isn't an icky part of me, or this isn't something that, um, I don't have to continue to dislike. There's a gift here. And when I was reading about the 34th gene key, which shows up Two times in my, in my profile, which folks, if you want to go to jinkies. com, you can get your own profile. It's, it's kind of like creating an astrology chart. You put in the, your, uh, time of birth, the city state, the birth date, all of that, but when I was reading about the 34th jinky, which is about force, that shadow of. Doing, doing, doing, trying, trying, trying. Um, I thought, Oh my gosh, that's like a story of my life. I gotta, I gotta take like a breath. Really think about like, it just offers insight. And that's what I love and I love. And we'll touch on this to how he, how he explains the program it's, it's not that we need more information, although this is information for us to digest, but it's waking us up, it's developing insight through contemplation. And just being with, with this and it, it can be uncomfortable, but still it's something that we can't run away from. Yeah. It's so true. And, um, you know, I was just talking to a client yesterday, we just started working with her gene keys and I was telling her, um, because it's all about awareness, right? Kristen, it's like all about awareness. And I was telling her, you know, it doesn't even. Matter if she goes ahead and does the, the shadowy thing, which in this case of the 34th, it's like to force things like to, to literally go against the universe and think that we little us have the capability to force something that doesn't want to happen. Richard Rudd. I love this, uh, analogy that he makes. He says, it's like. And he tells people, it's like, really feel this in your body, like every cell in your body, when you try to force a round peg into a square hole, it's like that, like it won't go. Right. But people with a 34th in, in significant placements in their, uh, gene key profile, We'll recognize this, you know, we all have some of these, you know, a little bit of all the gene keys in us, right? But if it's in a, a significant placement in the profile, then we might feel it a little bit more than others. And, um, so the point isn't like, in this case, not to force. Um, at least initially, it's just the awareness that you are forcing. And even that can be like, Oh my God, I'm doing it again. Yeah. Yeah. And, and developing, like you said, that awareness and, and not needing to fix it or, or trial will try. Cause he brings up the star Wars metaphor, you know, with Yoda saying, uh, when Luke Skywalker's really trying to force what that. That, um, ship member to raise it up and he's trying to use the, the, you know, the force forcefully. And, uh, I think that was the scene and Yoda said, do or do not. There is no try. Yes. Cause, cause, uh, Luke Skywalker is saying, I'm trying, I'm trying. Yeah. Maybe that's what that was. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. He's like, do. Or do not, there is no try. And I also, when I heard that, I was like, Oh my God. Yes. No, uh, you and I both have a 34 in significant placement. It sounds like, and so gosh, how much of my life I've spent doing that. And this is the beauty of the gene keys is like, cause you might think, well, that's just who I am. That's just what I do. That's you know, um, but actually no, it's not who you are. So the 34th gene key it's force is the shadow strength is the gift. Yeah. Right. And then. The city is I can't remember what the city is. It's majesty, majesty I love what he says about force because when we're forcing something like, for example, I worked at, um, right out of college. I got a job at wired magazine and my undergraduate degree was in religious studies and I loved it. And here I am. I live in San Francisco. I know I have to pay rent. So I get a job in human resources. I have no idea what that is. I'm working in business administration. I don't have a clue. And I'm, I'm moving up. I'm there for, you know, year after year, I don't like it, but I'm just there. And I'm for, I'm forcing, I'm forcing, I'm forcing, I'm staying in this job. And I could think of a million different examples of, of that, but it's like tunnel vision. And I'm in my head. And when he talks about fours. It's, it's a construct of the mind, right? So we're not in our power in that sacral area where a lot of that power is where there isn't force. It's more of like you're connected to the flow of life rather than being up in your head, trying to make something happen. Like you said, with the putting the, what was it? The square peg in the round hole or however that works. I was trying to force myself into a. In a situation that had nothing to, was not in alignment with me at all. Does that make sense? It makes perfect sense. The interesting thing about the 34th, um, because within all the gene keys, there are what's called programming partners. So they're connected to another gene key. And the 34th is connected to the 20th gene key. And, uh, the shadow of the 20th gene key is superficiality. So it's almost like, and it is, uh, self assurance of that gene key and the city is presence. So it's almost like when we're being superficial. We're also in that forcing energy, like you said, like you were doing that job, not really being who you are, like feeling like you have to do it. I gotta, you know, toe the line and do all this stuff. So, um, the more we get into our self assurance and our presence, the more we can sort of lift ourselves out of that force energy into strength, which is, you know, strength is, is very feminine. It's very pliable. It's almost like when I think of strength, I think of, you know, Like palm trees, you know, how palm trees are always, they're always on coastal regions, right? So, because when it's really windy, those palm trees need to bend, right? And they do, it's remarkable. And they do, and they don't break. Well, I mean, they could break if it's, you know, um, but. You know, I think, uh, culturally we think of strength as like, you know, strong and hard and, you know, that sort of thing. Whereas, um, strength really is. It's very feminine and pliable. And I know, um, for myself, when I feel that, that I'm in that forcing, cause I still do it now. Yeah. I was doing it like an hour ago. I was like, Oh my gosh, this is, I, I do, I, because the 34th is also a, a, a, a, a Deeply embodied gene key. It's very much about being in our body. So I try to think about, I try, I think about the, the self assurance and the presence. Cause I, I, when I think about the 34th, I can't help, but think about the 20th because that will, they both help each other is what I'm trying to say. Yeah. So I, in my mind, in my heart, I anchor myself deep into my body. And when I do that, it really helps me to come out of that forcing energy because forcing energy is it's of the mind. It's like, I got to do this. And we had this vision. That's why I just, it really woke me up when I was reading his, um, description of force comes from the mind. And he used. And that's the example of martial arts and how the, the strength, um, comes from that sacral area and all of the neural neural network that, that we there's almost like there's a brain there in the sacral area, or it's connected to the brain. I can't remember how he was describing it. Sorry, everyone, I'm still new to this, but that there is a presence that's has no words, has no, um, Um, thought process or it's processes. It's just, it is and how to tap into that presence. And I imagine for me, To use me, me as an example, using my meditation and mindfulness and kind of connecting the dots of, okay, this is where my mind's going. Um, I don't need to force this situation or force whatever I'm trying to do in my life to, like you say, have the self assurance. And I, and for me, it's also about faith. What do you think? Oh, I think, yes, like faith and trust are deeply connected to the 34th gene key. Cause he talks about the survival. Oh, I'm so sorry. He talks about the survival of the reptilian brain. And it's about. It's about survival in a way. That's why it's so deeply rooted in the body. Correct? Yes. And, and because it's like we think, Oh, you know, the universe or spirit doesn't know what it's doing. So I, I need to force it like me, Shannon, are you Kristen? Right. And to think that. You know, so that's where the trust piece comes in, that I don't have to do all of this all by myself. I can trust in the, the wisdom of life. And if we, it's like, you know, that, um, superficiality. If we trust that, like, let's take that job you were talking about. Um, If at that time you could have come into a place of trust and really understanding this job, just, it isn't me, you know, it, it isn't me. And I'm going to let it go and trust. That something better will come my way. Oh gosh. I couldn't have been further from my mind. I think I was in so much fear. Yes. And that's what the shadow is. Yeah, it's our shadow in, in whatever gene key we're talking about. Um, the shadow is always fear. It's fear based and, and. You know, many of us live there a lot of our life. Myself included. Oh yeah. And so it's like, it's a unlocking these gene keys is a journey. It's not like a, you know, one and done kind of fix it sort of thing. You know, I've been studying it for probably about six years now. And still I find like even yesterday, I won't go into it, but yesterday I was like, no, go into it. I love it. Share, share what you just, what you found out. Well, it was, you know, because I've been studying, uh, Chiron a lot in astrology. Oh my goodness. I love that in astrology. I, mine's in the house. I would love to see your gene keys, Kristen, you know, because, uh, do you mind me asking where your Chiron is in your chart? Do you feel like sharing that? Chiron is in my fifth house. Okay. Mine's in the eighth. So I'm, I'm with you. Okay. Go ahead. Okay. Okay. Um, and so then I got to thinking. I know Chiron is within the gene keys, you know, where is it? Um, it's our, our core wound or our vocation gene key. And, um, so I was looking at my gene keys and I was looking at, uh, my mom's gene keys and, uh, the gene keys of someone who, um, wasn't, was just, has been, uh, kind of, uh, a force in my life that taught me a lot of lessons. And, um, my mom and this person had the same core wound or same vocation, Jinky. So I was like, I need to do greater study on this because isn't that fascinating that lessons we learn right will often trigger our core wound? Yes. And then, like, if the job isn't done, so to speak, you may run into another person to trigger that core wound. And it's all. For our healing there. It is a difficult experience, but it is so incredibly, I'm so grateful to have those, um, what you're describing and also having someone, a stranger, a person that I know remind me, and it could be a very uncomfortable experience, but reminding me, okay, I need to you. Think about this or self reflect or, uh, this isn't quite done yet. Do you know what I'm saying? And I think we might be talking about a little bit of different things, but it's like dating kind of a similar type of person, you know, and we're not quite done with, um, with that lesson. It keeps showing up and as hard as it can be. Wow. What a gift that whether it's the universe or our soul attracting it, or who knows what it's, it's just, it's profound. It really is. And it's, um, I mean, there are many times in my life that I would not have looked at it that way. Oh, me too. Oh, yeah. Being on the other side of a lot of pain. Um, now I was just hiking this morning and I was like, wow, the universe is like brilliant and how lucky am I that I got the opportunity to experience this and come out on the other side. Yes. Because, you know, we're, when we're strongly drawn to someone, that's a clue, right? That they have some medicine that we need. And it could be a bucket full of pain. It, you know, it usually is, but if we can, um, work through it, And, and that's the, with the gene keys, Richard Rudd talks a lot about sitting with our pain, you know, and not trying to fix it or, or make it go away. It's not that we can't seek help or anything like that. It's just that the pain is trying to tell us something. It's trying to tell us, you know, where, where we're wounded to help us to, to heal that. And it takes a lifetime. I mean, I'm talking 30 years of my life and finally I get it. Yeah. Incredible. I love what you said too. About when you're really in pain and you're really suffering, it's hard to, to recognize that what you're going through is an opportunity or a gift to become more self aware, to develop more insight. And I, what I'm, what I'm sensing from what you're saying, and I can relate it to my own life, the more insight we develop, or the more self aware we become, the more The more resilient we become. So even if we get knocked down and we're like, Oh my God, like how many times do I need to, you know, experience this thing. We, we have this resilience that, uh, that really needs to be acknowledged. And honored. Right? Absolutely. I've, because I didn't, I didn't really realize that this was a thing. This, um, I, I've coined it the pilgrimage, like, you know, our pilgrimage through life. And then, um, more recently I read, um, Pema Chodron's book, uh, how we live is how we die. Oh, amazing book. If, if anybody wants to pick it up, she's just, I love Pema. She's, I've picked up her books along the way, but I learned something new in this particular book because it's already called, it's already a thing. And in the Buddhist tradition, they call it the Bardo, that life is like Then it's down and it's up and it's down. And just to get used to it, get used to, you know, sometimes life is going to feel pretty good and then it's not going to feel that great. I think in our culture, we're taught that there is sort of this upward trajectory that we should, life should keep getting better. And so every time we experience a downfall, we think, man, there's something wrong with me. Like, why is my life, you know, like this when I'm supposed to be here, wherever there is. Yes. And to, to, and that's part of being with the pain. It's just that. And, and the wave of life, the pilgrimage of life, or the Bardo of life that it goes up and it goes down. And the more we get used to that, that pliability, that strength to be with ourselves, no matter what. Wow. That is everything. That is everything. And that's resilience. That is acceptance. It's, it's everything. It's, it's the flow of life. Just like what you said. And I love your, um, the metaphor of the palm tree. Yeah. I think there's, um, it's a shame because there's so, I've been looking at this quite a bit recently. The, the things that are being sold, especially in the kind of like the self help, um, industry kind of like, well, here, here are the five things you need to do, or I almost feel like, and I don't have an, an example to offer right now, but there isn't a quick fix, like you said, and I feel like some of this stuff that I'm seeing is, is more of like, here, here's a way to bypass. Yeah. Your, your deep emotions or your, uh, uncomfortable feelings or whatever isn't, um, whatever you're going through that, um, uh, you don't want to sit with, like you said, absolutely. And, uh, you know, my whole, well, I think I shared with you on the, on the last podcast that we did of, um, you know, being. very anorexic as a young girl. And, um, that had a lot of this gene key, the 34th gene key in it, like forcing my body to do something that it couldn't do. And so I stopped eating, force it. You will be smaller, you will be thinner, you will. And I, and I willed my body to, um, you know, just. starvation mode. Right. And, um, And then from there, you know, I studied nutrition and, and different types of, um, medicine, traditional Chinese medicine, functional medicine, all to learn ways to fix. I realized, I realized, and, uh, and now I'm like, Oh, I really, you know, when I talk to people about food, I really have to, there has to be a caveat for me. Like this is not to fix you. Like I can give you some recommendations and we can talk about it, but it's a very fine line for me now that I understand. Or that I, you know, I guess we all have our journey through life and this has just been mine that, um, I thought, Oh, yeah, you know, I can help fix people and now I more want to help people be with themselves, be with their pain and, um, develop that resilience like you're talking about, or, or be able to surrender to To life and that we don't, we don't have to fix it. Even if it's not fixed, we can still live. A, a good life, a present life, a life of strength without all of that, without like, okay, you know, eat this way, do these exercises, do the, you know, it's all about the doing all of it's more about the being that I'm interested in now. And I think it honors the, our inherent ability to heal ourselves. Yeah. Because there's healing happening, whether we're aware of it or not, or not, the more insight we develop, the more skills we have to sit in mindful presence and be quiet and let those feelings come forward. There's so much healing and we may not be aware of, of how much actually, um, but the more we're with ourselves and the more we honor who we are, no matter what, um, one thing that I. was really, uh, struck by when I was reading about the 34th gene key is that I have OCD. And one of the aspects of the 34th gene key is that mental loop in the mind. And Even though I believe OCD could be hereditary, I think they may be coming up with that theory, or I don't know if they've proven it. I don't know. I think it was a way for me to manage the home environment that I was in. It was my way of shutting everything out. And forcing or trying to make something a certain way so I could feel safe. Um, I had a very difficult home environment. So for me, looking at it through the lens of my counseling background or however, I'm like, Oh, that was a perfect coping mechanism for a highly sensitive child who was in chaos, right? So I'm fortunate that I found treatment for it and the symptoms are, are very low. It isn't disruptive anymore. However, it has, The, the way my brain is wired, I can see how I can, you know, act out the forcefulness or have this idea of, okay, this is what I, I want to make and it's gotta be a certain way. There are things, there are elements about it that still are there. Um, so I think what I, I really. Really resonate with what you're saying about the way it showed up for you with the anorexia. Cause I think it was in a way similar to how I was managing. Very similar. Yeah. Our mind thinks I remember back up into the mind. Like for me, if I make my body a certain way, I'll feel better and I'll feel safe. You make your environment a certain way. You'll feel better and you'll feel safe. Oh, without a doubt. I mean, my Duran Duran poster, Shannon. They had to be, I was making sure they were like straight and, you know, all sorts. Who knows what would happen if they weren't straight, right? And my hair was feathered a certain, you know, with the feather, like, oh, it was torture. Right. Perfectionism shows up in this 34th gene key for sure. Um, because that's what the force is. It's like not allowing haphazardness. Or, you know, to gain a few pounds or to have a poster a little off, it's, you know, off kilter. It's like, Oh no, you know, Um, you know, I remember, um, when I was anorexic, uh, and I had almost stopped eating completely, but maybe I'd have an apple, um, I would have to go run, like go running outside, um, to burn off the calories of the apple. And also I couldn't, um, I don't know if you experienced this, Kristen, but there was also like a very harsh inner critic. Oh, oh, oh my goodness. Oh my goodness. Yes. Because it was all about perfection for me. Yes. It's like, oh, you're too, you're, you're too weak. You had to have that apple. Okay. Now you're going to be punished. And so you have to go. So a lot of the reason I stopped eating was because I, I couldn't. stand the voice. I couldn't stand the brutality of the voice. And so it was easier for me to stop eating than to eat and be punished. By myself, essentially, essentially. So yeah, and the, and Richard Rudd talks about this gene key can have deep brutality. I think he uses those exact words. I saw that word or yes, several times when we're living in the shadow, this, and this is the, this is the, the danger, I guess, of not dealing with our emotions. Yes, because the brutality, it either comes out toward ourself or it comes out toward other people. And so to dig in here and look like, look at ourselves and what's going on and be. Our pain, because a lot of what we're talking about too, is the avoidance of the pain. If I make my space perfect, if I make my body perfect, then I don't have to feel the pain of anything. So I remember what he was saying about, about, uh, it's either repressed. Or it's really out there bullying. So it's like a one or the other, at least the extremes of it. So mine, like I, I think yours too, if I may assume is, is it was repressed. So my goodness, it's still hard for me to, to express my anger. I can cry more now, but that was work to Shannon. Like I would have to watch a movie. Like I wouldn't go and say, Oh, I need to cry. So I'm going to watch a movie. But when I would see a movie and I would start crying, I was like, Oh, thank God. But now it comes out, but just to feel my emotions, so hard for me. Yes. That too, like for me too, will continue to be. a journey. Yeah. Right. That's why we, we, we think these things should be quick, you know, like, um, that I should, Oh, I should be over this by now. But what I've come, come to understand is that it's just, it's just, it's a journey and we can't, we can't rush it and we can't force it. And, um, to learn compassion for ourselves. I mean, compassion is a, is a, a key of the gene keys. Um, he talks about compassion a lot, compassion for ourselves, compassion for other people, um, because we're all on this planet doing the best we can. Right. And, um, yeah, the brutality toward ourselves or other people just, It's not the way to go, right? And I think our world needs compassion now more than ever, right? And it's, it's, um, it's work for each of us to do individually, like doing our own work. can help with this compassion because then when we're doing our own work, um, we can then offer compassion to other people. But if we're deeply suffering, it's very hard to see or to have compassion for someone else. Like, you know, people who have hurt us in our life, right? When we're, we're in that, when we're in that pain and that suffering, it's, it's very hard to see them for anything, but you did this to me, right? But then when we start doing our work and we feel more compassion toward ourselves, we can kind of look at them with softer eyes and be like, yeah, they were in a lot of pain too. Absolutely. And that opens so much in terms of reconciliation and forgiveness. Yes. Like I always think of reconciliation and forgiveness is kind of like, Not to say that. I mean, that could be a whole lifetime too, but it's, and it's not to say that we need to complete the healing cycle, but some of us will in this lifetime say, be able to reconcile and forgive, whether it's ourselves or others, or even, you know, those one or two people that, that we really, um, had difficulty with in our lives. But I, I believe that that opens. The, the path of of that work, and to we raise our vibration and I know that's thrown around so much but even if we don't. Like what you're saying, fix something. Like I don't know if I'll ever fix the OCD or I certainly am not overcome by it. It's not ruling my life. Um, but it, it offers having gone through that, like what you're talking about. Oh my gosh, I'm able to, to have compassion for myself and sit with someone who is an incredible amount of pain and hear their story. So it, like you said, it's not really a matter of fixing it. It's just a matter of, of acknowledging it and accepting it and being with it and allowing that to be, like you said, the journey, the pilgrimage and If we let it, we can, we can become more connected with others, I think is what I'm trying to say, like the brothers and sisters that we're sharing this planet with, even if it's a smile, even if it's more presence with the checkout person at the store, more presence with someone else. I, I really believe that. That those moments are more powerful and healing than we're aware of. Yes, I agree. Like even just to, um, because it's true. Like I, when I was so wrapped up in my own pain, I couldn't really. I didn't have a lot to give to other people, even like the checkout person at the, at the store. And even I remember, um, when I first moved to New Mexico and, uh, I had gotten a job, um, after I, after a training I did here, I'd gotten a job, um, as, uh, the front desk person at, um, the New Mexico Academy of Healing Arts. And at that same time, um, I was experiencing a lot of pain in my life. And, um, I almost got fired because I was not nice to the people on the phone. And looking back at the time, I was like, Oh gosh, you're so embarrassed. Right. When I was called in to be talked to about my attitude. And, um, at the time, yeah, just like, oh, wow, they're noticing that I'm so angry. And now looking back, I realized that, um, it was my own, I was in such pain that I didn't have patience for other people. I didn't have patience or compassion for their problems. I couldn't even have that with myself. And so it came out at other people. And so this is the power of this kind of work, um, that we free ourselves from this pain. I, I literally feel, I feel free from a lot of my pain. I, and it's nothing necessarily that I did. It was really just recognizing that I was doing it and then realizing that I don't want to do that anymore. Yeah. It offers choice. Yeah. Right. It offers. Once you've gotten to a certain place, right, because, because I do recognize that sometimes, like if you're in the depths of pain, it's really hard to see any of what we're talking about. Oh, for sure. You know, it's got to take its own. Course almost. Um, but the more we sit with it, sit in it and allow ourselves to feel, which is so hard for so many people, but I promise the more we do that, the more we learn to do that, the easier it gets. Yes. Oh, it's so true. It easier gets. And I, I, I see it as like a commitment. It's a commitment, not, not for the work, but a commitment to ourselves. Like I am going to, and I think this gets just back to self love and that's a whole path in and of itself. But I'm not going to give up on myself. Yes. And I, I feel that I perhaps did so many times in, in different ways that it takes perhaps something really big. I think to wake us up to go, you know what? No, I'm not going to give up on myself. I'm not, I'm worth it. Yes. I'm worth it. And even if the self love isn't, you know, at a high level, there's something, there's something that is driving us to, to not give up. And perhaps that could be a child, something that's asking us to really, you know, commit to ourselves. Um, yeah. Yeah. Um, I, I, that's true. It's like, I like what you said, like, I'm not going to give up on myself. And something I haven't really talked about is, is, um, also boundaries, you know, cause I've talked a lot about compassion until this and all of that for ourselves and other people, but also, um, boundaries are very important. Um, to recognize that, you know, we're worth something. And sometimes that means that there is an end of a relationship. With someone that, um, has deeply hurt us, uh, and just having that boundary for ourselves. So that's part of, uh, part of it too. You can still work on forgiving somebody without having them in your life. Oh, isn't that the truth? Yes. Absolutely. Yes. That needs to be said too. And what a difficult, I don't want to put that out there too much, but. It can be an obstacle if we're hoping or waiting for an apology, but we can still do it. We can. We can. Absolutely. And I, and it's like, um, for me that kind of, that also speaks to earlier when I said we can recognize that that person too was in pain. Yeah. And for me, that's where the forgiveness comes from. Like, yeah, I, I know that pain also, and I know how hard it is to be with. And so I can lend that to somebody, but that doesn't mean I need to let them back in my life. Yes. Right. I think that's just a, and that has to do with self caring for ourselves. Um, like I am responsible for myself and there are people that I can have in my life and there are people that I can't have in my life and that's okay. That's right. That's so beautiful. Another thing, and I think we might close here is. I believe that however we practice self awareness or insight, discernment comes to with what you're saying. Um, that insight, that contemplation, that sitting with our strong emotions, however long that takes, um, cause there is no final goal, right? There's no like, you know, we're doing it as we can do it, but discernment is, is so valuable. With the insight that we get from ourselves or about ourselves so we can make those decisions. Oh, you know, this is a type of person that is not, um, respecting me because I'm respecting myself more. Yeah. And, and I think, um, I love that word discernment and, and it's also about trusting ourselves. Yeah. Take care of ourselves, like not to put ourselves in harm's way. Yes. Right. So that's a call. Yes. That, that, that is part of, um, being the caretaker of ourselves and healing, like to know, um, to have that discernment, like, I know who is or should be here right now. And I know who shouldn't be here right now. And that's the discernment. And that's the, we begin to trust ourselves when we make, when we start making better decisions. About who we allow in our life and who we don't. And I, I think at least for me with, uh, being a victim of emotional abuse, that road has been a long one for me discernment, especially for people who it could be for anyone, but for people who are highly sensitive and our healers are natural, you know, empaths, healers, highly sensitive people. There's a. There's a, at least speaking for myself, I want to trust. I want to believe I want, I want to love. It's interesting. I want to love everyone. It's a very, it's a very interesting, very tricky feeling that I have where I'm like, well, I need to sit with this. Do you know what I mean? I mean, obviously I'm not hugging every single, well, I could hug every single person that I see. Yeah. But for me, I really need to take a time out. I need to really have a moment and use my intuition. And it sometimes it takes longer for me to really understand my motivation of, Oh, I'd love to have a friendship with this person. And I'm not noticing the red flags maybe. Um, and of course my discernment is much better, but I think for some people, we need more time. Yes. And, um, you bring up a good point about, um, being a sensitive person and that that is a, a tremendous, Gift, being sensitive. Um, and we do, um, I feel have to learn that again and again, like, yeah, we think everybody's like good and, and, and, and want to see the good in everybody. And I would say, you know, at a person's core, there is good, but there's too, for some people, there's too much in the way of that. And, um, you know, it, it reminds me again of, of Chiron, known as the wounded healer. You know, Chiron spent his, his whole life trying to heal himself. And, um, and this is from, you know, uh, Greek mythology, but. Um, it shows up in astrology to where Chiron is in your chart, but, um, many, many people who relate to, um, being in the healing profession or a healer, um, probably has a strong placement of Chiron. And that's the thing about, you know, being wounded again and again and again, but that that's what creates the medicine. To be able to help anybody else. We can't really, if we don't know pain, if we don't understand that process, there's no way you can help anybody. No, you can't learn it in a book. You can not learn it in a book. No. It comes from our life, right? And part of that is. That's why you're taught that boundary, like who gets, who gets in and who, and who doesn't. Yes. And it's like, it's a, it's a, it's a continual lesson, right? Like, like we're still like, okay. Um, you know, have to assess. Probably a big part of you, Kristen, like a big part of me wants to believe like, Oh, yes, this person is, um, you know, they want the best for me and, and, uh, and some people just aren't there. It's a, it's a matter of self awareness and it's a very compassionate way of, of looking at it. And I think that's the biggest takeaway. Perhaps at least for me, what we're talking about is that let's, as we're with ourselves and learning about ourselves and developing insight and awareness, whether it's with the gene keys or whatever method we use, having compassion for ourselves. Not sitting say in meditation or at our journal or at our counselor's office, hoping to fix, but just how can we learn to live in a life that It's mostly an unknown experience, right? How can we bend like the palm tree and how can we find the joy as we're developing the insights to, and not just hoping to fix something else. Like what a miracle to have an insight. What a miracle. And sometimes it's just enough that day and having to like, we're talking about with the forcing, you know, my gosh, we, we don't need to like with the force become this perfect, whatever, can we just allow ourselves to be. And, and real, I think, or an important insight for me is that I, I have little control over anything aside from how I. And respond or react. It comes back to us, right? Like we can't control one single thing, like anything outside of us. There's nothing we can control. The only thing is it comes back to us. It comes back to our heart and how we are in our life. And that's the whole point, I believe. in the Gene Keys is to, to become aware of how we are being and then to keep noticing it. Like I said to my client the other day, um, it's not, the point isn't to stop doing it. The point is right now to just notice that you do it. Oh my gosh. Wow. I did that again. And I did that again. Again. Yeah. And then just over time, we just, It's, it's interesting how people soften over time, the more we, it's kind of brought out into the light. They call it a shadow for a reason. That's right. It loves the darkness. It loves when we don't see it and we're just that, and it's a very heavy energy. But when you start to see it, it's like, oh, oh my gosh, there it is again. It is the path of, of transformation is just being able to see it so it doesn't act out in hidden ways. That's right. It doesn't hurt ourselves or other people. And that's really, I mean, What could you, what more could you ask for? Really? I mean, I, I really don't think, yes, I, I, cause if we're, cause we're here really on the planet, like that's a good question to ask ourselves, you know, why are we here? Right. If not to, um, evolve as a soul. Yes. Right. Like from a soul place and, and that's what the gene keys are. And then, and then from evolving from that soul place, then potentially like our work in the world, you know, we have something to give something to offer. Yes. Um, yes. What else are we, what are we doing if we're not, if we're not doing that, right. I mean, and that's all we need to do. I think I can, I can imagine, uh, And this isn't, um, to make light of, of someone who goes through a life, you know, without much awareness, because who knows what gifts they're giving other people because of that. But I can imagine, you know, meeting, like say you pass away and you go to, you see your spirit guides or whomever up in the spirit world. And they wanted to accomplish so many things. And they learn like, Oh, you just needed just to be who you are. You just needed to be, you know, we weren't expecting any of that. So that's something that I think about for myself is, you know, this drive that I have to do or accomplish or whatever. I have to really check myself and go, well, what, what is that? Is that. And it's okay to have, you know, a drive and it's okay to want to accomplish, but it's, it's something interesting to look at and to see, and to see if it's really something that is important. Yeah. Yeah. Um, I have that, uh, that drive to Kristen and I often like I do sometimes I'm just like, well, maybe. You know, I just, um, come in contact with whoever I do, you know, and, um, not cause I'm very aware. I love that. We're talking about this gene key. I'm very aware of the forcing whenever I see myself doing it. And if I feel that, that energy of, I'm trying to, Put a round peg into a square hole. I literally physically will move back, like either take my hands off the computer or, uh, you know, walk away from an email or something physically walk away from it, because that isn't, um, that isn't how I want to create my life. It's, it's, I want it to be. Allowing and not pushing and not striving and, and forcing and proving and all of that. And um, so again, even I is still aware, like, Oh, I'm doing that again. And I can, for me, it works to physically remove myself from whatever activity I'm doing that has that energy to it. Yes. Thank you. If it's coming from a heart place and I love what I'm doing and it's just, I'm in the flow, that's different. But if I'm like grasping or like, Oh, I got to make this happen. Um, that's not a healthy energy for me. That's a really good, a good reminder. I think for anyone, whether they have the 34th gene key, uh, in their, in their chart or not. Yeah, it's a really good reminder. Oh, thank you. This has been great. This has just been a great. I love fluid discussion. I love talking with you. Let folks know how to reach you and, and what perhaps some of the offerings that you can do. That you have. Yeah. Um, cause I told you last time on our podcast that I was creating my website and I am, but it is not done. Oh man. That's a beast. It's a beast. And, and, and, you know, to do it in a way that I, I want to, so, um, you can reach me at Shannon at Shannon C plumber. com. That's my email. And, um, Um, you know, I'm, what I'm doing now are sessions like this to help people, um, understand, like if, if you're in a lot of pain right now, or just interested in, in learning about yourself, the Gene Keys is a great way to do that. So I do Gene Keys sessions, I do, um, intuitive guidance sessions, um, that's more the work I'm doing right now. Oh, I love it. I love it. And the more work I do with parents of special needs children, which is, is my focus, I'm going to be sending a lot of people your way. Oh, thank you. Cause I just think it's so important for the parenting aspect, for the caregiving aspect. Um, it's so helpful. So thank you for everything that you're doing. Yeah. And thank you. Um, thanks for having me. And, uh, I just, I had a great time. Oh, I did too. I did too. Well, thank you everyone. Have a wonderful week. Take care of yourself and much love, much love to you.